I am running this at UK NAts this weekend. I’ll post my list afterwards
Cool! Looking forward to hearing feedback!
Some insight I’ve found and chewing on:
4 patch could be too many as I seem to rarely have energy sitting in my discard pile, ie) 3 may be enough…I usually junk hunt 1-2x a game…I might try swapping 1 out for another escape rope to help protect against locks (rarely occur and why I dont run keldeo)
Absol doesn’t provide value with other cards because zorack/zorua are far more valuable IMO, may remove Absol all together for a more viable card, deck has plenty of dark pokemon. I am debating on sliding in a token druddigon FLF. @baby_mario
Darkrai + tailow/swellow help you keep your resources and set up potentially favorable matchups every turn without any negative cost. I find it more valuable than running garbador lines which slows deck down trying to maintain and use roster spots. The reason I run the extra yvetal ex, a darkrai ex and a sableye is because i want to ensure they show up and if they are already out and I dont need them, they are my first consideration for ultra ball fodder…
He’s actually very good against Raichu, and decks that use Raichu, which I expect to be extremely popular now (As a possible Pyroar/Lugia/Yveltal counter it gives a lot of coverage).
I would keep him.
So, I think the question begs, who would you suggest adding/removing? You like absol and druddigon…I understand the reasons and over teching hurts the flow of the deck which runs smooth as silk. Zorua/Zorack (1 dce and a bench full of dark and this combo rocks) and Bouffalant have been SIGNIFICANT adds over the teching I did previously (Virizion/Blends, Garbador, Hydreigon, Pyroar/Blends)
The only cards that I think are open to change in this deck are Absol and 1 of the 2 Bouffalant (Although I like having 2 because it’s more likely to show without using ultra ball on it or thinning the deck mid-late game or sitting in prizes).
There are a few things about your deck that I would question, like the use of 3 non-Dark Pokemon with Zoroark and use use of Swellow at all. The Trainers seem a bit odd (2 N, 2 Bianca), but I’m guessing that’s because you don’t have everything?
I can understand why you like some of the things in here, and why you may have found them useful in certain situations (Swellow, Super Potion), but the deck as a whole is kind of unfocussed and doesn’t seem to have a coherent strategy beyond making the best of what you happen to draw.
This is the difference between new player decks and veteran decks, and it’s why you got ‘hosed’ at that tourney.
Dude, you should help him out a little bit and give him an idea of what he should fix. I’m not denying what you’re saying at all because your critiquing him and yeah it’s true. But why not at-least throw him a-couple pointers to guide him.
Went 2-1-3 this weekend, I drew to 2 players who slow played.
2 N’s could work, I used to use 2 a long time ago in a Landorus Deck I ran, this was ages ago though. Then again I ran a pretty odd deck, it was some what slow but it was defensive enough since I could start attacking so quickly and had access to more items/tools. I wouldn’t really suggest it now though, I was just messing with odd ideas at the time.
Apparently the best build of this deck (besides Garb) is now Raichu for whatever reason. I’m happy- I love Raichu- but I didn’t expect this.
raichu is pretty good, but there are allot more possibilities, good players will know right off the bat of your strategy unless you throw in different variables that are obscure, that goes for any deck really. I just think if you run a very linear deck, expect your opponent to read you and quickly put you in a state that gives them a huge advantage due to the fact their deck is not purely based on a successful meta deck, only loosely derived of it. In other words the centric strategy is still there but they have expanded upon it and added in techs that manipulate generic meta decks.
My point is don’t lock yourself into the thought that your good ideas can’t fit into a deck, just because it doesn’t follow the rules of past meta decks. Be creative and expand your possibilities and test the deck thoroughly.
Why do you run Swellow?
Well, if I run a speed darkrai/yvetal deck (no garbador), then I like to use darkrai dark cloak to give me a matchup advantage. Swellow allows me to take this a step further by allowing me to force the opponent to do a switch when I decide for them to do it. This becomes a disruption for the opponent. They are then challenged with who to attach energy to and guessing who I will have in the active spot. Think of darkrai/swellow as an every turn escape rope, however, I get to decide if they switch and if I want to do it.It gives me better opportunity to get favorable match ups without having to carry a bunch of escape ropes/switches/catcher/lysandre. I still carried 1 copy of escape rope and lysandre just in case swellow gets knocked out.
Swellow also does 60 damage for 3 Colorless energy, so it also gave me a backup emerg so to speak attacker for pyroar, who I played against right after the prerelease of FLF and still beat him because I kept sending him to bench and beat up on other pokemon not ready to battle.
My deck list has evolved over the past month…I would like to have colress instead of bianca and my kids are using it in their virgen/plasma decks and I haven’t traded for any yet. I think I can get some this weekend…Pal pad helps recycle supporters…I will also add some more N, Bikes, Skyla etc once Sableye/patches are rotated…Note, I quite often come very close to decking out, dont find sabeleye as needed as I used to and sometimes debate on having a 9th dark energy…this deck has beaten decks like speed lugia, blastoise/blk kyrum batista/beach and quite a few others…The hardest matchup recently has been aromatisse/xerneas/kangaskhan.
@baby_mario - I didnt need druddigon to beat blastoise (opponent was caught off guard by my scramble switch and extra lysandre) and it might have been easier and yes, although I love zorack/zorua and being able to patch dark energy…patch will be rotated and raichu def helped against lugia/mirror matches!
3 Yveltal EX PR XY08
2 Darkrai EX PR BW46
2 Yveltal XY 78
2 Trubbish LTR 67
2 Garbodor LTR 68
1 Sableye DEX 62
2 Pikachu XY 42
2 Raichu XY 43
4 Professor Juniper
3 Hypnotoxic Laser
3 Virbank City Gym
3 Dark Patch
3 Muscle Band
1 Silver Bangle
1 Float Stone
1 Tool Scrapper
2 Escape Rope
1 Pal Pad
1 Scramble Switch
2 Ultra Ball
1 Enhanced Hammer
1 Professor’s Letter
QTY NAME BASIC SPECIAL
8 Darkness Energy √
3 Double Colorless Energy
@jbandler Swellow is really not a good card. I would consider Lysandre despite what you say.
I am not currently running this version and I am trying to better understand your perspective to help improve upon my pokemon strategy. The other reasoning I had been using swellow is at the time I came up w/ the plan, FLF wasn’t out yet and I didn’t like pokemon catcher with 50% odds. So, a 100% of the time switch worked out great.
It may be that I haven’t played enough quality players/decks to make an educated decision on this in speed darkrai/yvetal or with existing cards that the meta has passed swellow by already with the release of lysandre. It was nice for swellow to not use up a supporter play…
Have you tried swellow in a speed darkrai deck? Is your thinking that hes to easy to snipe and the catcher ability doesnt provide enough value? I did add lysandre and a escape rope even with the inclusion of swellow…Could you elaborate on him not being a good card? I understand his attack is weak and I used him same as if I had Garbador, for ability, not attacking, same as some use aromatisse, slurpuff, darkrai, jirachi, victini, etc.
Thank you for your feedback, it is appreciated.
How many times are you realistically going to use Swellow’s Ability in a game, and how often is it going to be disruptive enough to contribute to a win? Those are the questions you need to ask.
I see your point. My memory says at least 1/2 the time I used him 1-2 at most. There were also a few games where I used him 5+ times and those May be what sticks out…
In various blogs and conversations there is discussion about keeping your opponent off balance, ie if they know exactly what is in your deck, because most deck lines are the same, they can plan accordingly for several plays in the future…I found this out first hand playing an experienced player who I also have been bouncing all my (do I dare call them rogue decks, joking. Since I am only teching a few cards and not matching some rare combos) …in any event, the opponent kept browsing my discard pile trying to figure out what I had left to play so he could make the right decision as I had a 4-3 prize lead and 4 cards left in my draw stack…I won the game knocking out his fully powered Blk Kyrum…after the game, he said he lost because he didn’t expect my scramble switch…which I kept N back into my deck all game…
In terms of swellow, I found him very useful in speed yvetal deck, albeit not as critical with lysandre, and still better than Keldeo vs pyroar, suicine etc
My point is, so many decks are identical, so much is available on the internet, the game is flooded w newbies, a small tweak can absolutely change the outlook of a game or tourney…
Talking about every deck needing 8-10 supporters min, raichu or druddigon being great counters is a whole lot diff IMO than saying a certain pokemon line is weak without playing it first hand in the way mentioned…
That’s actually not a bad point, did you consider tournaments where you may be versing the same person 2-3 times though. I haven’t actually play tested the deck idea, it seems interesting but at the same time you could be forced out of resources that you need for your Heavy hitting EX’s.
It’s just my opinion though, if it’s working for you then stick with it.
I’ve only played it in very local tourneys, we have a great mix of senior/masters and some who have the needed points! Prior to FLF, it did prove to be worth while, I believe. The jury is out because in the last tourney I used it in which was the first time I matched up against tropical beach players, I didn’t know how to play the meta against it (Flygon deck) and they were far more skilled/experienced than I by a Oceans length. (more than a country mile )
Since FLF, I replaced it with a 2-2 Garbador line and 2-2 Lysandre/Escape Ropes for playing my childrens’ decks (who were killing me). One of them played a Raindance deck , currently using an Aromatisse Deck and the other plays a Virgen deck.
Thank you for the input. Mostly, what I was trying to get at is, prior to FLF format, and when XY was released, I believe 1-1 Swellow was a great play in lieu of Pokemon Catcher (flip) and had great synergy in a Speed Yvetal deck. With the release of Lysandre, I don’t feel it’s as strong of a line now.
I hear ya, I have trouble against Flygon Decks as well, nobody actually plays them in the local Meta-Game around me luckily. The ones I’ve versed completely rely on their ability and Multiply in numbers, the only card I could think to counter that would be Cresselia EX since it would just keep healing 10 damage.
Yes, I realize that it more than likely wouldn’t work well unless you were an extremely experienced player and had access to all those cards. Not to mention it’s not related to Yveltal/Dakrai but still I see some hope for Cresselia EX as it’s a very underused card, I’m sure it could find success as a rogue deck, it had it’s niche in the past, so who knows.
You can always use Tropical Beaches to your advantage though, I guess finding the strategy may be tricky depending on how you setup and the lines you play, etc.
By the way, why not just toss together a proxy Flygon deck and use it at your League, try emulating their strategy in the best way that you can and just get a feel for it. I always like to play test decks a bit that I have trouble against.
I moved a post to an existing topic: Yveltal/Darkrai deck: Life after Dark Patch