Seismitoad-EX counter discussion


I see your point, however, all that work on a Stage 2 using up valuable deck space and no sleep potential. Malamar EX is clearly an improvement, one that is much more efficient than wasting space on Rare Candy or your poke getting KO before you ever get to use him.

The point is, any of the big hitters take something to work, 4 energy, other resources, etc. Malamar EX has potential to do it in only 2 turns, faster than most other EX…I like those odds since it can happen without searching and waiting for other resources…which increases the odds of it happening and putting damage on opponents board while they wait for other things to fall in place.


My point was to show the way flippy cards can kick you in the teeth, nothing more.

But actually, Vanilluxe was a good card in the brief HS-NVI format. The Paralysis lock was very attractive (far better than Sleep), but most importantly, you have to consider the card in context: there were no EXs to make running Stage 2s a bad idea and in fact the strongest deck at that time was likely Chandelure/Vileplume - two Stage 2s!

The two cards aren’t seriously comparable, but my guess is that we won’t see nearly as many Malamar decks as we did Vanilluxe, back in its day.


HS-NVI long b4 my time, so I didn’t realize that was the Chill max you were referring too…:slight_smile:

I can honestly say in about 20 games so far, I haven’t been “hosed” due to flipping. I haven’t missed a 2 turn KO of an EX one time yet. Basically, 3 heads in 12 flips, 25% of time isn’t hard at all.

Even if I only have 2 basic energy…3 heads in 8 flips, 37.5% of time isn’t horrible either…


Actually, it was this guy

Double Freeze + Fliptini gave you great odds on a Para Lock . . . but one fail was often enough to lose games.


I absolutely see your point with this card. Requiring 100% heads is a killer!


I guess what I am trying to say in an indirect and not-totally-clear way, is that coin-flips screw you over. Even with great odds and an awesome lock (you had Vileplume for Trainer Lock and no Virizion or Keldeo to switch out), the deck could, and did, let you down.

You are correct that every attack has costs: whether that be evolving, attaching Energy, discarding, self-damage, support cards etc. But most of those you can control through deckbuilding. With coin flips, you are at the mercy of chance and maths turns out to be your enemy (those odds of failure may be low, but they were there): a flippy deck can breeze through testing and then crap out through the first 3 rounds of your next tournament. Or not. There isn’t much you can do about it.


that might work but it can get OHKO’d easily and some things are better.


So, after many many successful games, it took less than 24 hours for your “curse” or “wisdom” to show me how the odds can go in runs against you and crush your dreams. Sigh…


What do you think of Virizion EPO 17?..I LOVE IT!!! :slight_smile:


Rotated??? 2020202


to bad it got rotated, with trick coin it could be quite a thing, it could also hurt pyroar decks.


Expanded??? 202020


No more item lock. Doesn’t work without item lock from the bench


it is still good without item lock.


That’s reduces the chance that your opponent won’t be able to switch out of the lock, since item lock eliminates Switch, Float Stone, escape Rope etc.


If you think that card is good then there is no way you could ever top a regionals.


In Expanded, I could see this card being a great Toad Counter. Even it’s first attack with muscle band does 100 to the Toad and heals 100 too!


Healing 100 is obsolete.


I’m with you, but in their argument for Toad, the water resistance does lend a little to their point.

The bigger issue is getting a Band down outside theorymonland.


But with Herbal , the attack, AND the resistance doing 60 isn’t so bad.

EDIT: Yes, I meant that virizion, thanks for posting the picture!!! :slight_smile: