Rayquaza EX / Eelektross / Tauros GX

4 x Tynamo PRC-62
4 x Eelektrik NVI-40
3 x Rayquaza EX DRX-85
2 x Eelektross PRC-65
2 x Smeargle BKT-123
1 x Bronzor PHF-60
1 x Bronzong FCO-61
1 x Giratina PR-XY184
1 x Tauros GX SUM-100

4 x Professor Sycamore
1 x N
1 x Lysandre
1 x Hex Maniac
1 x Xerosic
1 x Karen
1 x AZ
4 x VS Seeker
3 x Ultra Ball
3 x Level Ball
4 x Trainers’ Mail
3 x Battle Compressor
2 x Fighting Fury Belt
1 x Dowsing Machine - ACESPEC
2 x Skyarrow Bridge

6 x Lightning Energy - Basic
3 x Fire Energy - Basic

Card explanations.

Eelektross. You are NOT trying to rush to an Eelektross. This card fills a wide variety of roles mid to late game. 1st, you can see I am not running float stones or any switch cards meaning Ray will have a 1 retreat cost probably half the game. Eelektross removes the need to retreat Ray. Just pump out the lightning from your discard and use Energy Connect to put them onto your active Ray. This is a very different approach to Ray / Eels because it eliminates the need to switch in order to blast whatever your opponent has active. It also allows you to spread the energy around you bench so pesky pokemon like Yveltal EX can’t lysandre up a fattened Ray and hit it while it has 3 / 4 energy attached. Speaking of Yveltal EX, Eelektross also lights it up. Hard. Eelektross also acts as a secondary attacker if (when) you run into a deck using some form of EX / Basic stopping ability / attack. Eelektross can and usually does hit for 130 while being able to replenish the discarded energy to attack the next turn. Finally, Eelektross counters everyone’s favorite strategy of “get an Eel into the active position”. That’s fine and dandy. Evolve into Eelektross, light up the opposing active, and let them see how bad of an idea that was.

Giratina Promo + Bronzong FCL. These are here to stop Greninja / Trevenant. Plain and simple. They are discard fodder most games, but can come into play against fighting decks running Landorus and / or Carbink if they happen to break the Carbink. There are also times when you need Bronzong against random decks that hit your bench with attacks.

Smeargle. I choose to run a very low energy count and Smeargle is essential for making this work. Tons of decks out there (I am looking at you Sableye) run energy disruption and getting that fire energy off Ray is a viable strategy. Smeargle kills that strategy.

Tauros GX. Edit: Decided to add 2 Fighting Fury Belts + 1 Trainer’s mail while removing the three Acro Bikes. This has worked very well. Provides an attacker that doesn’t discard energy, but might be out of place.

3 Ultra / 3 Level balls. Most of this deck is searchable via level ball and there isn’t much that requires an ultra ball. The level balls also provide a quick avenue for deck thinning.

1 Lysandre / 1 N. I have toyed with going 2 count on both of these, dropping the acro bikes down to 0 and adding a 4th Trainer’s mail. I have found this tends to slow down the deck. In expanded, you can’t afford to be slow because slow loses. While running the lower counts does make this deck more susceptible to them being prized along with being worse against the item lock decks, they also make the deck a lot faster against every other match up.

1 Dowsing Machine. If you prefer Computer Search, go for it :slight_smile:

Anyway, I hope people find the deck list interesting. If not, well at least I have a post I can point people to when I talk about Rayquaza / Eelektross.

Just a couple thing I’ve found:

Use Tynamo NVI 38 for Paralysis

I like the idea with the Eelektross and the Smeargle, but using Keldeo/Float Stone and Super Rod is going to be much better.

The Bronzong Line will not really do much. Trev should be pretty crippled without item lock.

The AZ and Xerosic are probably not necessary. If you are picking up something to reset damage, you want to do it multiple times a game.

You only really need 2 Compressor, but 3 may be justified. I would play around with this count.

2 Skyarrow is a fine stadium, but you could also use Skyfield and add a tech M Ray and spirit link and use a Shaman or 2 instead of T-Mail.

Please do not feel you have to use any/all suggestions either.

Thanks for responding. Please take this response for what it is intended to be which is a discussion on your suggestions! I really appreciate your time and a couple of them make a lot of sense.

The last point is something interesting that I hadn’t considered before. I will look at that as a possible approach to play around with.

As for the Bronzong line, I disagree. It also stops shadow stitching and that is pretty huge against greninja with this deck and is far more reliable than ranger. It plays huge against both Trevenant and Greninja in the same way that Karen turns the Night March and Vespiquen matches.

I have played the keldeo float stone approach and it is far less effective. It also provides nothing in terms of an alternate attacker while Eelektross does. I think one of the biggest flaws of the old Ray Eels deck was its reliance on switching. This deck doesn’t rely on switching. That’s actually what is making me think really hard about switching the stadium per your suggestion!

AZ and Xerosic are both used most games for a variety of purposes. To be honest, if Archeops wasn’t around, I would dump Hex Maniac for some other supporter.

You might be right about the compressor count. I have played around with 4 and that is too many. I haven’t ever dropped it to 2 though!

Like I said up front. I really appreciate you taking the time to respond. The only way to grow is if people share ideas on decks and I found your response helpful!

Instead of keldeo what about the zoroAK.

Zoroark is too much space.

Zoroark should never be used in expanded. Mind jack is cool if you are expecting a whole lot of Ray, but Keldeo is just more consistent.

As the others stated, Zoroark isn’t a good fit for this particular deck. I am already teching 3 additional pokemon just to counter two decks that are awful match ups without those techs. While I like the fact that Zoroark can be an alternate attacker while providing a viable switch mechanism, I think it requires a full 2-2 line to function and if I am being perfectly honest, I don’t value the ability to switch out enough in this particular deck to make it worth running one.

I do get it. The primary way to light things up with Ray early is to switch them in and out. I have played with this method and what I have found is that people are more than happy to take the 2 prizes for Keldeo. It is a good target. I know I gun for it if possible too simple because its appearance likely means that deck relies on it. People are far less inclined to target Eelektross because the prize trade isn’t worth it. Add in that Eelektross hits for 80/130 itself and it is a threatening, bulky, 1 prize bench sitter with the ability to do more when called for. Basically, what I am driving at is that the goal is to refill an active Ray with enough energy to one shot things. Eelektross gives a second approach to refilling Ray that is unexpected and effective.

I understand that this isn’t the way Ray / Eels has traditionally been played, but to be perfectly frank, if the way Ray / Eels was traditionally played remained effective in today’s meta, we wouldn’t be seeing list after list of “decks you will see at X tournament” lacking Ray / Eels. It doesn’t exist because the old approach doesn’t counter enough of the major decks in the current meta. By contrast, this deck does. I wish more players would pick this deck up and test it because I think they would be very surprised at how powerful and effective it is against the meta.

I am not saying this deck is perfect or that it doesn’t have exposable flaws. All decks do. My main point is that the deck list as provided plays against almost anything in the meta and is “off meta” to boot. I mean, we are seeing deck lists like M Gardevoir and Volcanion as “anti-meta” expanded plays being listed on several sites. All because people are looking for something off meta, powerful, fast, and surprising. Absolutely no one is looking at this deck and this deck does every one of those things. Starting T2, you 1 shot 180 HP EXs. There aren’t many decks faster than that. It also isn’t nearly as resource dependent as the two decks above. Once set up, your opponent has to counter it to stop it. And it sets up fast.

If that sounds like I am trying to sell the deck, it is because I kind of am. I am pretty bummed I couldn’t make it to Collinsville this weekend. I know I won’t see Ray / Eels anywhere, but that doesn’t make me less of an advocate for it :slight_smile:

RayEels is just bad compared to Raikou/Eels. Why would you want an EX attacker that is reliant on multiple energy types when you could have a non-EX, purely Electric attacker that is still hard to OHKO?

I have played both. While Ray does give up prizes, it also OHKO’s things from T2 on with very little effort to ready every turn. That’s constant pressure that Raikou/Eels doesn’t provide. This variant also consistently ends games by T6 which Raikou/Eels doesn’t do either. The multiple energy types argument is overblown. It is extremely rare that needing multiple energy types is an issue for this variant of Ray/Eels.

I understand the theory crafting behind Big Basics >>> Big EX. But in reality, Ray takes out threats in one shot where Raikou doesn’t. They aren’t the same deck and aren’t played the same at all. Beyond having the same energy acceleration engine, everything else about the two decks isn’t the same. It is similar to saying “why would I play Ray/Eels when I could play Solgaleo/Bronzong?” They have a similar energy acceleration engine and both can take T2 OHKO’s. Beyond that, the decks aren’t similar.

But it is bad compared to the meta and Raikou is more consistent for what it is because of only one energy type.

No one plays Ray / Eels and as far as I know, no one has tested my deck or a variant of it to know so I don’t think that is a fair statement. People have played the old Ray / Eels to death and I am positive they are right about it not working against the meta. I have played this against the meta and win consistently with it against most of the more popular decks in the meta. I am not a top player. I can only imagine what a great player would do with it.

Honestly, I think people dismiss the deck too easily without enough experience with it to actually know. The energy typing isn’t a problem. It doesn’t get in the way of consistency. An inconsistent deck can’t play 9 energy in a 3 fire / 6 lightning spread and that is exactly what I am running. I have played this deck a ton and it is no more inconsistent than Raikou/Eels.

It is no more inconsistent than Toad/Owls or Toad/Bats which I have played a ton as well lately. I don’t hear thing one about consistency with those decks and those decks have coin flips galore. The difference is that a great player has taken those decks to top finishes.

If a great player has extensively tested this approach to Ray / Eels and someone can point me to a post or a Youtube video showing me the results, I would love to see it. Seriously, I would absolutely love to see it. I haven’t seen thing one about it though. I have searched pretty extensively too. Ray / Eels using Eelektross + Smeargle. I don’t see it anywhere. Basically, it seems like the attitude is that the archetype doesn’t work without really looking at the card choices available to the deck today.

Has a bit about rayquaza eels. not as much as it deserves

I wish there was more about it. It looks like this was written before Smeargle came out too and Smeargle can be pretty important (hence the two count instead of one count). The idea it is talking about is the same though and the point about using Dynamotor first then evolving Eelektross happens all the time. Especially when someone gets cute and sticks an Eelektrik in the active slot. :slight_smile:

As one who has tested rayeels before I can tell you that half of the stuff in your list is completely unessecary

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jirachi123 in every post i have seen you in(quite a few) you have been negative. Dont just say its wrong by using examples, giving different ideas, or not posting at all

Tested against what though. Example, I am sure you would say the Bronzong + Giratina are unnecessary…except when you play against Trevenant or Greninja which both see a lot of play where I am at. Another would probably be Karen…except when you play Night March or Vespiquen. Night March sees a lot of play where I am at. I am sure AZ would be another call people would question (and have questioned on this thread), but it acts as a simple heal / active remover in a deck where there is virtually no downside to lifting a card due to the ability to accelerate the energy. Xerosic? Effectively stops garb, takes KOs on FFB attached EXs, removes special energy from dependent decks like Toad / Vespiquen / Night March / Accelgor. Hex Maniac? Only good way to get pokemon evolved against Archeops unless you are suggesting I include Wally / Evosoda which I would bet dollars to donuts you aren’t.

Outside of those choices, what else is questionable? Card counts on Smeargle + Eelektross? General dislike for the idea in general? Don’t care for Tauros?

I am being 100% serious here. If you think the deck has a bunch of unnecessary elements, please explain them. I can go in depth on this deck. I have tested it against everything under the sun with a ton of different variations. This one gives me a shot against the largest number of popular meta decks.

Example, I have played this without Bronzong + Giratina choosing instead to put in a copy of Rough Seas to try to give myself another turn or two out of my benched mons against Trevenant. But that only helps in one match up and does almost nothing in the Greninja match up where shadow stitching absolutely obliterates this deck. Bronzong + Giratina make those matches work where a combination of Rough Seas + Pokemon Ranger doesn’t.

Basically, I am saying there are trade offs and decisions made about these particular techs that come after over 300 games with different variations of Ray / Eels. If there are reasons why you think my logic isn’t sound, I would like to know what they are because I can explain my card choice for literally every card in that deck list.

Actually I really like tauros[quote=“Fayld, post:16, topic:10367”]
Example, I am sure you would say the Bronzong + Giratina are unnecessary…except when you play against Trevenant or Greninja which both see a lot of play where I am at.
You just take the autoloss to Greninja and trevenant is dead IMO. You can’t try to counter everything. Now your area is a different story, and if that’s the case, then honestly just work on something else this isn’t worth it trying to counter those

EDIT I clicked done but I wasn’t done, more coming[quote=“Fayld, post:16, topic:10367”]
Outside of those choices, what else is questionable? Card counts on Smeargle + Eelektross?

If you need smeargle to get fire enegies, then something is wrong. Think back to when rayeels was first played; it was easy to get fire energies and I ran two super rods which helped. Eelektross is bad IMO, Using skyarrow to switch between rayquaza, or heck even using keldeo ex is better. Your eelektriks are way too valuable and your don’t want to evolve them.

One last thing: computer search is better than dowsing machine and 3 battle compressor is a stretch. One or two is fine. And another out to archeops is evosoda which is played in raikou eels lists sometimes and is pretty decent in rayeels

I appreciate the feedback. I don’t happen to agree with the feedback and think that this approach is something you need to play in order to truly have the strengths show up. I have played the pure switch variation. It isn’t as good because it is too reliant on switching. That was always an issue back when it was popular and remains an issue with that particular variant now.

I think your point about trying to hard to fit a deck into a meta is valid. That said, this deck has room, so there are available tech options available. I play a very wide assortment of decks from T1 to absolute trash, so it isn’t like I am “Ray / Eels or bust”. I have found this particular variant to be my most consistent deck. That may be familiarity with the deck as much as anything else.

Why take an auto loss to Greninja or Trevenant when simple techs (and those are simple) eliminate the need to lose to them. You can’t tech against everything, but those are popular here so I tech against them. I don’t tech against Rainbow Road / Mega Ray and both those decks are both fast enough that they obliterate this deck. I have a choice about what I tech against. RR / Mega Ray are both easier techs, but I also see them a lot less. That may change going forward, and if it does, then the techs change.

Side note, I don’t think Trevenant is going anywhere. Alolan Muk is a pretty strong tech for that deck that I am reading a lot of people plan on incorporating. I am not looking forward to that tech LOL!

I will be real, I get the questions about Smeargle. I really do. But it is one of those cards that no one really gets until you use it in this deck. It is really powerful in this deck. It isn’t a matter of difficulty getting fire energy back. There is no difficulty there. I could do exactly what you are suggesting and run something that pulls them out of my discard and either back into my deck / hand. I have, in fact, done exactly that in an effort to get rid of the Smeargles because they are an extra bench sitter getting in the way of other choices. However, Smeargle is convenient and more effective than these other options. I can lay down any energy and it becomes the other color as long as the other color is discarded. People always assume it is the fire that is the problem. It isn’t. Sometimes you draw fire in hand and want one to be a lightning. Smeargle covers this easily. It is the difference between having to scramble for a fire / lightning to take a KO vs having the out built in on my bench without needing to work for it. Smeargle also changes a 3 lightning / 1 fire “discard 3 lightning” Eelektross attack into a “discard 2 lightning and keep 2 fire” attack which is immediately replenished via the two other benched eels. It is effective. It is simple. It isn’t item dependent. It doesn’t take my supporter for a turn. It is ability dependent, but the entire deck is already ability dependent.

I think you make good points, but I think they really undervalue the purpose of Eelektross and are truly only considering Ray / Eels the way it was played in the past. You aren’t rushing an Eelektross. You don’t want it down until your opponent finally counters what you are doing with something that makes switching harder / more costly / unable to accomplish some other way. That is the point in the game where Eelektross shines and makes an appearance. It is a mid to late game card that gets use in about 90% of my games. It also makes an appearance in many Raikou/Eels decks where it is effective in a similar capacity (albeit for different reasons).

Computer search is better than Dowsing Machine early game for sure. I generally have few issues setting up with this deck though. Where this deck frequently needs help is a late game / mid game specific supporter / tool / stadium and those are in my discard pile. It instantly makes 4 level balls, 4 ultra balls, 5 VS Seekers, 3 Skyarrow Bridges, etc. Dowsing Machine isn’t for every deck, but with a fat pokemon line like what this deck is running, it makes teching 1 less of every trainer possible.

Battle compressor. I could see 3 being too much like I said to another poster. I have tried with 4 and that was too much. I haven’t tried with 2. There are a lot of times I am thinning with BC late where I am literally thinning out another BC to make sure I don’t draw one, so I could see it. Only reason I hesitate is because it makes owning the fat pokemon line ok. Once I know what I am facing, I can get the unnecessary mons out of my deck.

I may need to try evosoda in this deck. I could see that having a lot of potential.

Anyway, thanks for taking the time to respond. I respect your opinion on the deck and think that they make a lot of sense for a different approach to Ray / Eels. I honestly think this approach is more effective though and think you would agree if you built it and played it :slight_smile: Maybe not though. I don’t seem to be able to convince anyone until they play against it LOL!

Bunny rich, that article is 2 years old. I don’t suggest you listen to it.

I think that without shaymin, this deck can just brick and lose to anything. A 1-1 tech against trevenant? How do you expect to get it out under item lock? If you are already one shotting with rayquaza, why do you need three elektross? I could understand one, but not three. I’m pretty sure keldeo float stone is necessary though.

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