"Irritating Outcome" – Top 64 Juniors Worlds 2016 Tournament Report


#1

This is the companion discussion topic for this article.


#2

Great article as always. Glad to see Nathan getting some recognition. He played his nats list for worlds as I thought it was ok to play and I couldn’t help him on anything else.

I was also wondering why they called Liam up to the stage on day two. I guess this answers my question.


#3

Sorry to see your son didn’t have a better outcome for Worlds but you guys certainly had a good run this year.


#4

Haha, yeah, I was like, “we are 2-3, they can’t possibly have anything to discuss with us at this point”. Thanks for the kind words, Will.

Hmmm, I guess I missed my opportunity to say something like, “turns out that replacing Vileplume and Compressors with Fighting Pokemon and energy is like replacing Shaymin with Octillery and thinking your deck is good.”?

That would have been a good line? Would I have put a “cancerous Virbank” logo in my post?


#5

I assume Nathan is aging up?


#6

He’s got another year lol. Going to dominate (if he can figure out how to make his own lists lol.)

Good luck next year!!


#7

Perhaps, but most of my salty Virbank posts are much more general, like getting mad at people who don’t bother to research first, so I’m not sure. We toyed with that deck idea a bit, but scrapped it when we found some of the matchups weren’t good at all. I imagine we would’ve had a similarly poor outcome had we gone that route.


#8

Hope you keep finding the time and inclination to report on the kiddos’ tournaments, @bhalliburton. Always interesting to read about how you guys prepare for these events (though we’d much rather be on the front end of of that team if you’re ever inclined…)

The Hyatts and the Ng-Guzmans and our dear Mr. Post are such good people. I’ve said this a million times now, but one of the reason we fell headlong into this community is that the human quality is high. There’s so much more negativity on the soccer fields compared with at these world-class tournaments with their cash prizes.

And finally, thank you for giving our man Xatu his due. We can’t get enough of him. Xatu-kazam was our last monstrosity online, but Xatu-plume takes the cake.


#9

I do have to say I strongly disagree with this statement as well as the notion that Vespiquen Vileplume is a strictly superior version of Vileplume to Zygarde Vileplume.

1.) Playing a less speedy version of the deck allows you to play more supporters. This way, you can function better under both your own and your opponent’s item lock.

2.) You’re not afraid of decking yourself out, and you don’t run out of resources nearly as fast. Unlike Vespiquen/Vileplume, you don’t rely on having bench space and energy remaining for your Bunnelby (in around 50% of games).

3.) Carbink alone wins games. Vespiquen/Vileplume has problems with most Mega decks, as well as Darkrai/Giratina. Carbink can grind through all of those matchups almost by itself.

4.) Your attackers can take more than 1 hit. It’s often hard to find Pokemon under Item Lock so being able to stick around for more than 1 turn (assuming your opponent gets anything going) is incredibly useful.

5.) You get to play Korrina. Being able to search out Level Ball for Gloom or Heavy Ball for Vileplume gives you a sure fire out to the Vileplume in some situations instead of hoping to hit it off of a Sycamore.

Vespiquen Vileplume does have a better chance to totally take control of a game and blow your opponent out, but Zygarde Vileplume has a better chance to comeback in a game where it seems to be at a disadvantage early. Both decks have their merits.


Also, commiserations to your sons on disappointing finishes. Hopefully they both realize that Worlds is comprised of the best of the best and even when they don’t do as well as they want, it’s a great accomplishment to be there.


#10

It really blew my mind a bit, as someone who wasn’t even a competitor, not only how few players advanced into Day 2 compared to Day 1 invites, but also the number of players that we consider to be top players that didn’t make it to Day 2 either.


#11

Was kind of hoping for a shout out due to that fun game me and Liam played but it’s okay. :grinning:Delinquent really is powerful.


#12

Not quite related to your article but do you have any tips for a parent looking to get his kid interested in playing the game? We’re in the DC metro area and I bring him with me to local leagues, but the game hasn’t sparked his interest enough to play.


#13

Great read Brent, and awesome weekend with the kids even if the results weren’t what we planned for. You can’t control that, you can control your deck and I your summation of the decision making for the Jr meta felt spot on. On to next season!


#14

It was great hanging out with you and Nabeel on day 2 world’s. Onward to the next season.


#15

FIrst I pushed choir because my son seemed musical and that did not stick. Then we tried wrestling and that did not stick. Then he got interested when schoolmates were playing “street Pokemon” and Pokemon turned into his passion (at least for the moment). If you have been taking your son to league and he does not seem interested, Pokemon may not be his thing.


#16

It’s tough. He’ll play but only rarely. He can pilot dark decks and houndoom rather well, but he’s more into collecting the cards I guess.


#17

I am always impressed with the detail you are able to put together for these articles. well done and remember one year’s less than stellar finish gives them a benchmark to beat next year.


#18

Hey, we played the deck so I get it. Also, you are a much, much better Pokemon player than we are, so maybe we are just wrong, but I have to say: Your story is much the same story we were telling ourselves. Unfortunately, I think the deck performed for us in a way that demonstrates that it is good, but not amazing - and unfortunately, to win, you need amazing. We thought 2, 3, and 4 were true for sure. And I think it kind of works out like that in practice, but the less reliable T1 lock and the much lower initial damage output seemed to offset these benefits.

We tested Korrina and as our list indicated, we ended up cutting it for other supporters because we found that we were rarely one piece away - we usually needed to just keep digging into our deck further to hit the T1 lock and the Korrina did not really give us enough to justify being our supporter for turn when we were trying to set the lock up. For example, a good T1 for us consisted of getting out a Carbink, getting an Oddish/Gloom/Vileplume, getting one or two other attackers on the board, and the FGP. Further, we would like to attach an energy, attach an FFB before the lock comes down, and have a plan to get the Carbink Break out given that we won’t be able to Ultra Ball for it going forward but Power Gem is usually important. Given the volume of pieces we felt like we needed, Sycamore seemed important.

If your point is that Zygarde Vileplume is good and we just played it poorly or had bad variance, that may be true. Determining how thinks work in Pokemon is hard, so all of my opinions seem more “feeling” based than quantitatively data driven, so I accept that I could be wrong, but I FEEL like the deck is just ok.

Thanks for the commiseration. Worlds is hard! Congrats on your great Day One run!


#19

@beartrapper: If you figure out how to make children interested in what you want rather than what they want, let me know. My kids will be playing musical instruments the next day. And practicing every day because they love it so much. Umm, one thing that I think influences my kids a bit is that success in an LC gets you packs. My kids love getting some packs.

But my sons liked the idea of playing the game. One of my oldest sons favorite things in the world is to do late night play-testing with me the night before a big tournament at the hotel. He feels like that is really quality time with dad.

I mention how our friends the Chin’s have a son who qualified for Worlds this year. His first real experience was going to the World Championship and playing at side events. That was exciting for him.

I think playing good decks makes a big difference. Losing to people with better cards makes a kid feel like the playing field isn’t level. They want to think they have a better deck than anybody and then they may want to show people.


#20

Thanks Brent. That makes sense about them wanting to show off something they think is cool. I only started playing a year ago because my son wanted to play and I had no idea what to do. We started going to Jason Inman’s league. I got hooked and he got bored.