"Forbidden Knowledge" – Introducing Expanded Beyond the Bans and Looking at Espeon/Garbodor & Gardevoir for Ft. Wayne

This is the companion discussion topic for this article.

First let me say thanks for the article. I found it refreshing to read something about a topic other than worlds decks. While I have been able to take those decks and apply some principles to create expanded decks, it is nice to be able to see something that is a 1:1 look.

As for the lists, I get that you haven’t had a lot of quality testing at this point. That definitely makes things hard. I can’t say that I have either, but that could be why you might not be running into current toad variants. Many of them that I see are built around Acerola and streaming the toads (get 2 set up and just keep bouncing them as needed). They keep reusing the FFB and the DCE without any coin flips. All stacking damage. The confusion might be enough to stop a quaking punch, but it has been my experience that there are way too many outs in expanded for it to work consistently. The deck I am running has 2 Acerola, 1 AZ, 2 Guzma, 1 Super Scoop Up, 2 Lele, etc. Chances of you making that stick while not using 5 items are slim to none.

To be clear, this is not intended to be critical. I just don’t think you are seeing what I am seeing.

As for the Gardevoir deck, I have been playing something similar to what Travis Nunlist put together in expanded. I don’t have the Beaches so while I think it would be fun to try, I can’t really make it work unfortunately :frowning: That said, the Darkrai match up has been a literal push over for me every time I see it. I think if you are teching the second Gallade for that match up, you are over teching. Gardevoir punishes that deck pretty consistently in the games I have played with it online.

Again, I really want to make it clear that what I am trying to do with this post is to share what I have seen playing with Gardevoir and using / against Toad variants since the BUS cards became available online. As you stated, I don’t think I have had quality testing. I have a ton of games in though and those two themes with Toad and Gardy have both been consistent.

Basically, I am trying to further the discussion and if what you have seen is different than what I have seen, I would love to hear more!

Thanks again for the article!