Empoleon DEX, Dusknoir BCR // NXD-on


#21

You are not winning the Plasma match up anyways. Most of the time they will favor attacking with Lugia EX anyways to take 2 Prizes instead of one on your Miltanks that you should be attacking with instead of Empoleons.

There’s a 1 in 53 chance that your single Dusknoir will be Prized (probably a little more than that because there are 6 Prizes but I don’t feel like doing math) and when it is you run Town Map anyways. You could make the same argument for adding 2 Exeggcute but you don’t because even if it is Prized it isn’t the end of the world. Also you play 4 Rare Candy, so you’ll likely be using one for Dusknoir, especially since you also have Prinplups. I don’t have a big problem with running a Dusclops, but the 2nd Dusknoir is certainly not needed and I’d go as far to say it’s pretty bad.


#22

It’s a 1/10 chance for a single copy of non-Basic card to be Prized (6 Prizes / 60 card deck = 1/10). In reality the math is a little more complicated than that I think, but the result is 1/10.


#23

Dusknoir is the Garbodor of this deck. It’s a big enough part of the deck that I feel like 2-1-2 is necessary to make it consistent.


#24

If you feel that way then go ahead. But space is tight in this deck and I’d rather just play like a second Super Rod or something than have the second Dusknoir.


#25

I’m an advocate of a thicker Dusknoir line. Lysandre for Dusknoir KO sets you back so far you will often lose the game.


#26

I run a 2-1-1 Dusknoir line with a Town Map and two copies of Super Rod and it works perfectly for me. I definitely recommend it.


#27

I run a 2-2 Dusknoir line without Dusclops or Town Map and haven’t had any issues getting out Dusknoir when I need it.

I would go with Miltank over Sawk. Even in the bast case scenario with Sawk against a Plasma Thundurus you only hitting for 160 (50 base +30 for bangle, doubled with Weakness) so if you have to 2HKO anyway, stick with Miltank that can 2HKO everything.

I agree that the Max Potion is largely useless. Too many things can OHKO the whole deck to make it worth including.


#28

I have played with and against the list that Ishaan used to win Seniors nationals and it is basically perfect. The only thing I think would be better is 3-4 level balls as opposed to the 2 that Ishaan used. The list is on Pokemon.com, and yeah no max potion, definitely 2 tropical beach.


#29

It plays well, but curious why favoring muscle band over silver bangle? The match-ups seem pretty good against most non-EX decks and given Dusknoir isn’t more damage better?

I’m sure i’m just missing something. Raichu?


#30

Raichu, Garbodor, Sableye, Yveltal, any Stage 2 you’d like to Lysandre up and smack around. Basically it is a guaranteed extra 20 damage against everything or a situational extra 30 damage against EXs. Most people prefer the consistency of Muscle Band. Besides, I can think of very few situations where the extra 10 damage from Bangle would have made a difference.


#31

Actually, in most games, every 10 matters with this deck, which is why Dusknoir is so important.


#32

I think what he means is that Silver Bangle is situational, and 10 damage can be added by simply dropping a basic. Anyways, what are your guys’ thoughts on this deck in the next format? Swapped out Level Balls for Fan Clubs and Super Rods for a Sacred Ash, myself. What about you all?


#33

I don’t think it will be a viable deck in the new format. Against a Seismitoad Ex/Garbodor deck, everyone’s favorite penguin would be shut down; no rare candy!


#34

Well, it could still evolve the traditional way.

But no, I don’t expect Empoleon to survive: Landorus EX + Muscle Band + Strong Energy = OHKO on anything this deck starts with.


#35

Thus the Mr. Mime, really helps out while you set up.


#36

The active still gets ko’d though.


#37

I would keep an eye on Empoleon, the water weakness is very valuable this format, it just needs a good partner and Miltank will be a hard one with the fighting weakness.


#38

Miltank already get’s OHKO’d anyways. Then you just follow up with Empoleon, it might be a problem if they go with Lucario though.


#39

Water does seem to be a good Type in the format (as far as we can tell in advance). However I can’t help thinking there are better ways to exploit it (Seismitoad, Plasma Kyurem, maybe even Beartic FF).

Setting up Stage 2 decks was never exactly easy in the recent past, and now that they have lost Beach and Level Ball, it’s only going to get harder. Meanwhile, Basics decks only get more powerful thanks to the Fighting support, and Garbodor is likely to be everywhere.

I like Empoleon a lot and played it last season, but I think its time has gone.


#40

Well its time has gone until the meta shifts anyway. Empoleon has been declared completely dead in the past only to pop up again unexpectedly with new partners and strategies. I concur with your analysis for the present though. I’ve tried replacing level balls with Pokemon Fan Club, Call For Family pokemon and even Evosoda and nothing really gets the job done for Turn 2 Stage 2 set up.